Mo News One-On-One With U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken
And more, Admiral John Kirby on the U.S. response to wars in the Middle East and Ukraine
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Good morning from Washington D.C.
It was a busy Monday at Mo News: Mosheh sat down with Secretary of State Antony Blinken and White House National Security Council spokesman Admiral John Kirby to talk about the wars in Israel and Ukraine, and a host of other national security issues.
Before we get to Blinken below, check out Mosheh and Kirby’s in-depth one-on-one. Some highlights:
We asked how the U.S. envisions the Israel-Hamas war ending without pushing for an immediate ceasefire — Kirby says it’s Israel’s choice.
Is Israel is doing enough to prevent the deaths of Palestinian civilians? — he says Israel is doing more to telegraph next war moves than the US ever did.
Whether Ukraine will have to give up territory to Putin to end war: Kirby admits the counter offensive was not as successful as Ukraine hoped, but billions in U.S. aid is preventing the war from spreading.
His mother and wife send him frequent critiques of his performance in interviews and briefings
And the national security issue that keeps him up at night: Assaults on democracy around the world.
We have highlights from both interviews in today’s daily podcast, as well as a separate special edition podcast with the full length interviews. You can also watch them by subscribing to our Youtube Channel.
Have a good one!
Mosheh, Jill, & Lauren
🗞 SPECIAL EDITION: ONE-ON-ONE WITH U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN
[Editor’s note: This interview has been edited for time and clarity.]
Mosheh: Let’s begin in the Middle East. The Israelis said they're not stopping until Hamas is gone. You've had a number of discussions, a number of trips there. What have you said to the Israelis? How much pressure are you putting on them right now to wrap things up? How close do you believe we are to the end of the conflict?
Secretary Blinken: We’ve said from the beginning, after the almost indescribable events of October 7, that of course Israel has a right, even an obligation, both to defend itself and also to try to make sure that October 7 never happens again. And we continue to support that. But it's also clear that how Israel does that matters, as we said, from the beginning, maximizing every effort to protect civilians to make sure that humanitarian assistance gets to those who need it is from our perspective critical. At the same time, it's clear that this is going to have to move to a lower intensity phase. And this is some very much part of our conversation with the Israelis.
Mosheh: So you've been telling the Israelis, it's time to move to low intensity?
Secretary Blinken: We are having conversations with them — about moving to a lower intensity phase, the duration of the current phase — these fundamental decisions are for Israel to make.
As their ally, their partner, we can give advice, we can give counsel, we can have very direct conversations about how we see things, but they fundamentally have to make these decisions.
Mosheh: Do you believe their goal of eliminating Hamas is achievable?
Secretary Blinken: The goal really is and it needs to be focused on making sure that Hamas cannot repeat what it did October 7. We've heard Hamas leaders say, that if given the opportunity, they would do October 7 again and again. That's what Israel is dealing with: making sure that, to the best of their ability, his doesn't happen again.
It's also critical that there be a path to a durable, sustainable peace. Durable, sustainable security for Israel. And that cannot only be achieved through military means – it has to be achieved as well through political means. From our perspective, we said this from well before October 7, we see that through the fulfillment of political rights for the Palestinians and a Palestinian state.
One of the things that's happened is, in a very perverse way, Hamas has captured the flag of Palestinian nationalism. The ultimate way to recapture that flag is to stand for a better idea. And the better idea clearly is making sure that Palestinians have a future in which they can decide their own fate.
Mosheh: You've said that the Palestinian Authority should be leading Gaza. The Israelis, publicly, are opposed to that. Polls out of the West Bank and Gaza show that more than 90% want Abbas to resign: he's 88 years old and widely seen as corrupt. Are there better ideas? Are there alternatives? Why prop up the Palestinian Authority?
Secretary Blinken: First and foremost, it's imperative that Palestinians — Palestinian voices, Palestinian views — are reflected. And ultimately, the Palestinians have the ability to govern themselves. This is going to be a process.
It'll be a process, when the current conflict ends in Gaza. A process to get Gaza back on its feet to help its people. It's going to be a process to make sure that governance combines both Gaza and the West Bank. And a process to see what kind of leadership emerges and how it emerges.
Ultimately, we stand for elections around the world. That's something that we’d want to see at some point. But the most important thing is to make sure that Palestinians are governing themselves. How they decide to do that, by which group, by which people, that fundamentally has to be their decision. But it's not something that will necessarily happen from one day to the next. You have got to get a process.
Mosheh: You've said you've you carry a card with the names of Americans who are held abroad. There's eight Americans being held in Gaza right now, nearly 11 weeks in. Gaza is the size of Philadelphia and we have the most powerful military on Earth.
I've heard this from a number of members of our community saying: ‘How is it that we have eight Americans there? We give a lot of support to the Palestinians. And those Americans are still being held? Why can't the US do more to get those people home?’
Secretary Blinken: We're on this every single day, and it's at the top of our list of priorities: which is to bring Americans home. We had the humanitarian pause that resulted in the release of 110 hostages. We've had a few Americans who were released both as part of that pause and prior to that. And it's something that we would very much like to get back to.
Unfortunately, Hamas decided to renege on its commitments, which is why that pause broke down and the hostage releases stopped. We're working to see if we can get back to that. But it also underscores how incredibly complicated this is.
Because yes, it's a relatively small area, but, as you know, Hamas has constructed an entire city, underneath the existing cities with an extraordinarily elaborate tunnel network. These are things that are not easy to get at and very, very difficult to do anything effective to make sure that you can bring people out safely. The best way to do it is through negotiation. And we've seen the results that we've gotten to date, we'd like to get back to that.
Mosheh: Personal question for you. You've discussed your faith. It came up at an early meeting with you standing alongside President Al-Sisi of Egypt, where he mentioned, you're Jewish. I was curious, in watching the events of October 7, and watching the rise of antisemitism globally, how that's impacted you personally and how your identity impacts your diplomacy?
Secretary Blinken: Well, I think we all bring our identity, our backgrounds to the table. Certainly, I bring mine and also as the stepson of a Holocaust survivor, as the grandson of someone who fled pogroms in what's now Ukraine and came to the United States. You can't help but bring that to the table. When you see something like October 7, that brings to mind the very kinds of atrocities that your family had been subjected to in previous generations.
But having said that, I'm an American. I have the immense privilege of being the Secretary of State in this moment: representing our country, representing all Americans. That's where I start. I'm trying to make sure on behalf of the President that as we're engaged around the world, we're doing so in a way that advances American interests, American values
Mosheh: In regards to Iran. There's some criticism that the US has not been strong enough in fighting back more than 100 attacks across the region. BP and others saying they're going to avoid the Red Sea in regards to the Houthis. Why hasn't the US been tougher? Former CIA Director Leon Panetta said we need to be much more aggressive. The Iranians are sensing weakness. What's your reaction to that?
Secretary Blinken: We have taken action. We've taken action against Iranian backed militia in both Iraq and Syria. We have put together a maritime task force to deal with the threat that the Houthis pose to maritime shipping. We've got 40 countries putting out a statement in opposition to what the Houthis are doing and making commitments to work on this maritime task force.
Even as we and the world are intensely focused on Gaza, we also want to try to make sure that this conflict doesn't spread. That it doesn't go to Lebanon, Israel's border with with Lebanon, the West Bank, nor the broader region.
So making sure that the actions that we're taking are very deliberate, very focused on deterring the conflict from spreading, not provoking a conflict to grow wider. That's something that we have to factor in as well. We've taken resolute action when our people have been endangered. We've made very clear that we'll continue to do that. We've taken action against many Iranian individuals and Iranian entities as well, as I said, the militia that are beholden to them that are operating in Iraq and Syria. We want to make sure our people are protected. That's job number one. And second, that this doesn't spread.
Mosheh: Your role is to promote US image abroad. One of the most popular popular apps internationally and domestically is Tiktok. I was struck by your congressional testimony earlier this year: you said Tiktok should be ended one way or another. I'm curious why you're concerned about Tiktok and what you mean by ending it?
Secretary Blinken: We have a real challenge with Tiktok. Unfortunately, we see in China the use and abuse of technology, for reasons well beyond what that technology is designed for. In other words, in one way or another, to get information that's used by the state and the military, and that potentially could undermine our security. So we had realconcerns about that. Real concerns about the relationship between Tiktok and the Chinese government, the Chinese state, the Chinese military. That’s something we have to we have to guard against
On the other hand, I recognize that so many people are on that platform, getting information or having conversations, that it does pose a real question and real challenge on figuring out how we can appropriately engage while dealing with some of the real concerns that we have about security. There are a number of ideas that are out there about how to square that circle. It's something that we're working on.
Mosheh: So, end it one way or another?
Secretary Blinken: It really is a question of making sure that the security concerns that we have about the possible misuse or abuse of the platform, that in ways that can undermine our security as a country are addressed.
Mosheh: We'll end here, big picture: you gave an address at Johns Hopkins University earlier this year. You talked about how people around the world are “losing faith in the international economic order.” I've seen some analyses done that basically the world that I was split 50/50: authoritarian regimes/democracies. Democracies peaked about 10 years ago, and that's sort of fallen. Countries are looking at China as a model here. Is that a failure of American foreign policy? Is that just good policy by the Chinese? How much does that concern you? How are you trying to change that momentum?
Secretary Blinken: I don't think that countries are necessarily looking toward China. On the contrary, what we've seen, especially over the last two or three years, is a much greater convergence between us and many countries, in Europe and many countries in Asia, on how to approach some of the challenges that China poses.
Second, I think you see countries around the world that have done business with China that have second thoughts. Second thoughts about taking loans and taking investment from China, that turns into massive debt loads on those countries. Concerns about the importation of Chinese workers to build the various infrastructure projects that China is engaged in. Concern about worker standards, environmental standards, corruption.
On the other hand, you also see countries that are laboring mightily under a few things: debt burdens, that we have to help them get out from under. They're also laboring under the difficulty of getting access to capital to do the critical things that their people need, and want them to do, including addressing some of the challenges of climate change, dealing with food security, building infrastructure, making sure that they have a sound energy future. We are spending a lot of time and a lot of effort in trying to reform the international financial system so that countries that need it can have greater access to capital, so that they can get out from under debt and they can find a means of actually addressing what their people want.
We spend a lot of time trying to work on things like food insecurity — it's a challenge for countries around the world. We are, by orders of magnitude, the largest donor to the World Food Program. We provide about 50% of its budget. To cite some other examples, China and Russia provide less than 1% of its budget. We have major initiatives to try to tackle some of the things that people are feeling and experiencing in their own lives, including the need for better infrastructure, including the need for building climate resilience, including the need for dealing with food.
Mosheh: So you feel we're effectively competing with China?
Secretary Blinken: We're not asking people to choose, we're trying to offer a better choice. They have to decide, we're not making anyone decide. But if we're offering what we think is a better option — that better addresses their needs, and addresses it in a way that is also responsive to some of the concerns they have — I think I know the choices I'll make.
Mosheh: Secretary, thank you for joining us.
Secretary Blinken: Great to be with you.
⏳ SPEED READ
🚨NATION
📌 Appeals court says Mark Meadows can’t move Georgia election case charges to federal court (AP)
📌 GOP Gov. Abbott signs border bill that makes entering Texas illegally a state crime (CNN)
📌 Rudy Giuliani sued again by ex-Georgia election workers (AXIOS)
📌 A judge halted the removal of a Confederate memorial at Arlington National Cemetery (NPR)
🌎 AROUND THE WORLD
📌 Volcano erupts on Iceland’s Reykjanes peninsula (CNN)
📌 U.S. launches Operation Prosperity Guardian to defend Red Sea shipping lanes from Houthi attacks (CNBC)
📌 Mahmoud Abbas says willing to reform PA so it can rule Gaza, but Israeli policies ‘the problem’ (TIMES OF ISRAEL)
📌 Pope approves blessings for same-sex couples that must not resemble marriage (AP)
📱BUSINESS, SCIENCE & TECH
📌 Japan's Nippon Steel to acquire U.S. Steel for $14.9 billion (REUTERS)
📌 Apple halting sales of Series 9, Ultra 2 smartwatch over patent dispute (FOX BUSINESS)
📌 Southwest Airlines fined record $140 million by DOT over 2022 holiday travel meltdown (ABC NEWS)
📌 Apes recognize friends they haven’t seen for decades, new research finds (CNN)
🎬 SPORTS & ENTERTAINMENT
📌 Jonathan Majors dropped by Marvel after split guilty verdict in assault trial (PEOPLE)
📌 This very ’80s evening gown worn by Princess Diana just set an auction record (CNN)
📌 Stephen Curry’s three-pointer streak ends at 268 games in Warriors’ win (GUARDIAN)
📌 Parenting advice YouTuber Ruby Franke pleads guilty to 4 counts of child abuse (CBS NEWS)
🗓 ON THIS DAY: DECEMBER 19
1843: English author Charles Dickens published A Christmas Carol, which became one of the outstanding Christmas stories of modern literature.
1980: The film "9 to 5," with Dolly Parton, opened.
1997: James Cameron's “Titanic” starring Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet premiered.
1998: The U.S. House of Representatives impeached President Bill Clinton, charging him with perjury and obstruction of justice. Clinton was acquitted by the Senate the following month.